# Spermidine delays aging in humans **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Created:** [May 20, 2022, 9:39am UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587 "2022-05-20T09:39:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![JuanDaw](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/juandaw/32/5311_2.png) [@JuanDaw](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/JuanDaw)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 11:15pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/121 "2023-05-24T23:15:40Z")
I use the Instant Pot, which has a yogurt-making feature/button. But it turns off at eight hours, and stays on keep warm mode. I just unplug and replug to do another eight hours. I only do 16 hours. It gets tart. I use inulin as well. I follow the procedure of Dr. William Davis. > **[New improved L Reuteri yogurt method](https://www.luvele.com/blogs/recipe-blog/new-improved-l-reuteri-yogurt-method)** > > Improve the texture with one extra step! Mastering Dr William Davis’s homemade yogurt made with the probiotic ‘Lactobacillus Reuteri’ has been no easy feat. We empathise with your failed attempts because we’ve had plenty along the... I have not experienced gas side effects. I make the yogurt for the reuteri. I put about two capsules of BB-12 per half gallon of milk. Haven’t noticed any difference. I prefer oyster mushrooms (pleurotus ostreatus) and shiitake for spermidine. [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225635120\_Content\_of\_biogenic\_amines\_and\_polyamines\_in\_some\_species\_of\_European\_wild-growing\_edible\_mushrooms](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225635120_Content_of_biogenic_amines_and_polyamines_in_some_species_of_European_wild-growing_edible_mushrooms) Please. No more Bryan Johnson. I am not a fan like you. ---
**Author:** ![DeStrider](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/destrider/32/19418_2.png) [@DeStrider](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/DeStrider)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 11:25pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/122 "2023-05-24T23:25:02Z")
Is there any way to simply buy the yoghurt premade? Any brands available at the stores? ---
**Author:** ![RapAdmin](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/rapadmin/32/377_2.png) [@RapAdmin](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/RapAdmin)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/123 "2023-07-13T15:32:23Z")
# Molecular targets of spermidine: implications for cancer suppression > the crucial role of polyamines in cell proliferation has also implicated polyamine metabolism in neoplastic diseases, such as cancer. While depleting intracellular polyamine biosynthesis halts tumor growth in mouse models, lifelong external spermidine administration in mice does not increase cancer incidence. In contrast, a series of recent findings points to anti-neoplastic properties of spermidine administration in the context of immunotherapy. Various molecular mechanisms for the anti-aging and anti-cancer properties have been proposed, including the promotion of autophagy, enhanced translational control, and augmented mitochondrial function. For instance, spermidine allosterically activates mitochondrial trifunctional protein (MTP), a bipartite protein complex that mediates three of the four steps of mitochondrial fatty acid (β-oxidation. Through this action, spermidine supplementation is able to restore MTP-mediated mitochondrial respiratory capacity in naïve CD8+ T cells to juvenile levels and thereby improves T cell activation in aged mice. Here, we put this finding into the context of the previously described molecular target space of spermidine. Open access paper: > **[Molecular targets of spermidine: implications for cancer suppression](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10320397/)** > > Spermidine is a ubiquitous, natural polyamine with geroprotective features. Supplementation of spermidine extends the lifespan of yeast, worms, flies, and mice, and dietary spermidine intake correlates with reduced human mortality. However, the... ---
**Author:** ![Jonas](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/jonas/32/11713_2.png) [@Jonas](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/Jonas)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/124 "2023-07-13T17:28:09Z")
no human involved in this study? ---
**Author:** ![Rsq](https://www.rapamycin.news/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Rsq](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/Rsq)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 1:02pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/125 "2023-07-17T13:02:01Z")
I am a bit confused. Do you add those additional ingredients as you make yogurt (flax oil and arginine)? Thank you ---
**Author:** ![Bicep](https://www.rapamycin.news/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Bicep](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/Bicep)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 1:44pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/126 "2023-07-17T13:44:28Z")
Yes, add to the milk, then add the Trubiotic bb12 and keep at 100 for 36 hours. The arginine goes to ornithine, putricine, then spermadine if I remember right. I didn’t look it up, but that’s close. Arginine is good for you anyway as it helps make NO. I don’t know how much to add. I’ve been crunching pills all this time, but have ordered a bag of powder now so to make it easier and cheaper and I think I’ll increase the amount. ---
**Author:** ![Bicep](https://www.rapamycin.news/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Bicep](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/Bicep)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 2:02pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/127 "2023-07-17T14:02:41Z")
Ha ha I just read up and noticed I’ve given varying temperatures and times. I have a lot of trouble using raw goat milk, it can’t go over 12 hours. If I pasteurize it will go longer without separation. Half and half will go the full 36 usually, maybe because they ultra pasteurize or something. The trubiotic with bb12 and la5 will actually be ok for a range of temperatures, I like body temp or a little more. It’s pretty forgiving. ---
**Author:** ![medaura](https://www.rapamycin.news/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@medaura](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/medaura)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 7:15pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/128 "2023-07-20T19:15:32Z")
Apologies for the freeloader question but can someone please summarize in a few sentences what the deal is with yoghurt or any particular bacterial strains? I’ve been skimming the thread and I don’t get it. 1. seemingly spermidine can’t be detected in the blood stream even after major supplementation so either it’s a nothingburger OR its positive effects are attributable to its metabolite spermine which 80% of it gets broken down into 2. something something Re: certain bacterial strain plus… inulin as a prebiotic? ---
**Author:** ![Goran](https://www.rapamycin.news/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@Goran](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/Goran)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 7:32pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/129 "2023-07-20T19:32:59Z")
Spermidine supplements are nothing burgers. It needs to come from diet. Wheat germ is highly concentrated, 6 table spoons is gives you 10mg spermidine, good source of fiber and potassium as well. Win win ---
**Author:** ![scta123](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/scta123/32/9422_2.png) [@scta123](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/scta123)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/130 "2023-07-20T19:57:23Z")
Chlorella algae have quite a lot of spermidine (besides other benefits, amino acids and micronutrients which are all highly bioavailable). > The average spermidine content in algae cultivated at 30°C was 1.9 mg/g dry weight (minimum 0.29 mg/g, maximum 2.24 mg/g). ---
**Author:** ![CTStan](https://www.rapamycin.news/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@CTStan](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/CTStan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/131 "2023-07-20T20:12:24Z")
My latest interpretation of the spermidine data was that many of the benefits resulted from conversion of spermidine to its metabolite spermine, therefore testing for spermidine was not the appropriate test. While I’m waiting for clarification, and since I have a quantity of spermidine on hand, I continue to take 15mg/day in my coffee. I’m ready to make spermidine yoghurt once I’m convinced it will be worth the effort. ---
**Author:** ![Bicep](https://www.rapamycin.news/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Bicep](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/Bicep)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:56pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/132 "2023-07-20T20:56:48Z")
I think much of the value in spermadine is it’s ability to strengthen the gut barrier. Lustgarten talks about it in his book and gives the references. The microbial burden is a big deal for T2D in particular, but all the metabolic stuff that kills you in general. So it’s in the form of spermadine while in the gut, must be converted there, but does that job anyway. BB12 converts arginine into spermadine in the yogurt, before it gets to your gut. Spermadine is expensive and getting it from food is possible, favorites are cheddar cheese aged more than 3 years, some mushrooms (but it depends on things we can’t control and is a crap shoot), maybe peppers. People love to use wheat germ, but it is famous for a lectin that opens the gut barrier. It’s so good at opening the gut barrier that drug companies use it with medicine to open the gut so that the medicine can get through. Never mind all the other stuff that comes through with it. Wheat germ will shorten your life IMO. ---
**Author:** ![medaura](https://www.rapamycin.news/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@medaura](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/medaura)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 10:24pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/133 "2023-07-20T22:24:49Z")
I got the wheat germ gel pills a while ago but I’m not sure I want to keep taking it long term because I too have read some iffy stuff re: wheat germ. I do ferment my own water kefir and now and then regular kefir — which I manage to eventually kill, resetting the cycle— so the yogurt idea is appealing. But what strain of bacteria produces spermidine as a byproduct? I missed that from the thread. Not too interested in aged cheddar as it tastes like toe jam to me. ---
**Author:** ![RapAdmin](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/rapadmin/32/377_2.png) [@RapAdmin](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/RapAdmin)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/134 "2023-07-20T22:27:38Z")
See this post for info on the strain of bacteria that produce spermidine: [Spermidine delays aging in humans - #50 by RapAdmin](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/50) ---
**Author:** ![medaura](https://www.rapamycin.news/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@medaura](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/medaura)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 10:32pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/135 "2023-07-20T22:32:07Z")
Thank you! I will bookmark it. May I suggest a master thread of a resource with links to where such things can be purchased? I know it’s time consuming and respect your time so totally fine if you can’t do it. But I feel like I might be missing out in great resources other members have mentioned across scattered threads. ---
**Author:** ![tananth](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/tananth/32/13753_2.png) [@tananth](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/tananth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 10:37pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/136 "2023-12-30T22:37:29Z")
A source of BB-12 at 25 billion CFU per sachet, ships from UK and USA : > **[Optibac Probiotics | Bifido & Fibre Supplement | 30 Sachets](https://www.optibacprobiotics.com/product/bifidobacteria-fibre-probiotics)** > > Probiotics & fibre in Optibac Bifido & Fibre, which contains B. lactis BB-12®, the most researched strain of Bifidobacterium in the world. Optibac are currently backordered for shipping from USA and recommend ordering from their UK site if you need it soon in USA. With 10% subscription discount works out to $0.80 per sachet with 25 billion CFU of BB-12 vs $0.30 per capsule with 1 billion CFU for TruBiotics. Might make it possible to get reasonable levels of BB-12 without having to make your own yoghurt. PS : Also available from Amazon for a higher price of $1.23 per sachet with PRIME delivery : [https://www.amazon.com/OptiBac-Probiotics-Maintaining-Regularity-sachets/dp/B005J35BRA/ref=sr\_1\_9?keywords=Optibac+Probiotics&qid=1703996588&sr=8-9](https://www.amazon.com/OptiBac-Probiotics-Maintaining-Regularity-sachets/dp/B005J35BRA/ref=sr_1_9?keywords=Optibac+Probiotics&qid=1703996588&sr=8-9) ---
**Author:** ![tananth](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/tananth/32/13753_2.png) [@tananth](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/tananth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 11:09pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/137 "2023-12-30T23:09:17Z")
A very similar strain B. Lactis BL-04 has 99.8% sequence similarity to BB-12 : [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0956713519305742](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0956713519305742). A comparison of health effects of 4 different B. Lactis strains including BB-12 and BL-04 is on the Optibac website : [Bifidobacterium lactis | Database](https://www.optibacprobiotics.com/professionals/probiotics-database/bifidobacterium/bifidobacterium-lactis) This paper seems to suggest that all strains of B. Lactis increase polyamine production in the gut and spermidine is one of 3 main polyamines produced by B. Lactis strains : [https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2022.1094258/full](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2022.1094258/full) Unlike BB-12 you can get BL-04 in bulk quantities from a Los Angeles based company : 100 grams of powder for $260, with 500 billion CFU/gram (recommended dose of 0.8-1.6 gm per day, with 400-800 billion CFU, also includes a child measure of 0.1gm with 50 billion CFU) : [B. Lactis Probiotic Powder - Custom Probiotics](https://www.customprobiotics.com/B-Lactic-Probiotic-Powder) ---
**Author:** ![JuanDaw](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/juandaw/32/5311_2.png) [@JuanDaw](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/JuanDaw)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 11:40pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/138 "2023-12-30T23:40:00Z")
For those who do not like yogurt, you could make probiotic water. ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/CY9V648J9YA/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/CY9V648J9YA?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque Ingredients are the probiotic capsules, water, and some honey as the “feed” for the probiotic. Might try this when I get back from vacation. ---
**Author:** ![JuanDaw](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/juandaw/32/5311_2.png) [@JuanDaw](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/JuanDaw)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/139 "2023-12-31T00:14:17Z")
Miller did not detect spermidine in mice. But the Japanese detected it in human blood. > **Although the blood spermidine/spermine ratio in mice did not change after increased polyamine intake,** **this ratio did decrease in human volunteers.** The difference in blood spermidine/spermine ratio between mice and human volunteers might be due to a species difference, differences in the ratios of spermine/spermidine loaded, and differences in the intestinal environment such as endogenous flora. [https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jnsv/55/4/55\_4\_361/\_pdf/-char/en](https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jnsv/55/4/55_4_361/_pdf/-char/en) Last page, last paragraph of the article. ---
**Author:** ![JuanDaw](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/juandaw/32/5311_2.png) [@JuanDaw](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/JuanDaw)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 12:26am UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587/140 "2023-12-31T00:26:08Z")
Reposting from an earlier thread. > ### Lifespan extension in mammals > > Lifelong spermidine supplementation via drinking water is sufficient to prolong the lifespan of adult female and male mice[90](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-022-00322-9#ref-CR90). Similar effects were observed for spermine but not for putrescine[90](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-022-00322-9#ref-CR90). > > Spermidine also sufficed to prolong the lifespan of pre-aged 18-month-old mice[90](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-022-00322-9#ref-CR90) and short-lived male mice with progeria (_Zmpste24_ _−/−_ mice)[171](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-022-00322-9#ref-CR171). > > Likewise, daily injections late in life caused a nonsignificant lifespan extension in mice[102](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-022-00322-9#ref-CR102) and polyamine-enriched food prolonged the lifespan of aging mice[172](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-022-00322-9#ref-CR172), suggesting that the mode of administration is of little importance for the longevity effects. > > Interestingly, the upregulation of intestinal polyamine production in 14-month-old mice by feeding the prebiotic arginine combined with the probiotic bifidobacteria **LKM512** (equipped with the enzymatic machinery to convert arginine into spermidine) **is sufficient to prolong lifespan and reduce the incidence of age-related diseases** [173](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-022-00322-9#ref-CR173),[174](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-022-00322-9#ref-CR174). > > While the cardioprotective effects of spermidine could mechanistically be linked to autophagy[90](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-022-00322-9#ref-CR90), only one mechanistic lifespan study has been conducted in mammalian models. In the study by Yue et al., lifespan extension and autophagy induction by spermidine feeding were abolished in autophagy-deficient male _Map1s_-knockout mice[52](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-022-00322-9#ref-CR52). > > Fewer studies have been carried out on rats: in salt-sensitive _Dahl_ rats, spermidine exerts systemic cardioprotective effects[90](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-022-00322-9#ref-CR90). One study found no impact on life expectancy but a significant healthspan-extending effect in middle-aged male Sprague-Dawley rats[175](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-022-00322-9#ref-CR175). [https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-022-00322-9](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-022-00322-9) This is where the strain LKM512 comes in. LKM512 was rebranded to BB12. As Tananth posted above ,it can be sourced from the UK. From Amazon, BB12 is Trubiotic. First sentence above says spermidine supplementation is sufficient to prolong lifespan. Same effect from spermine. That ties in with the post of CTStan about spermine. [Previous page](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587.md?page=6) [Next page](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/spermidine-delays-aging-in-humans/1587.md?page=8)