# How to reduce rumination? DMN? How to find TMS that works? **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Created:** [May 22, 2024, 10:38pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/how-to-reduce-rumination-dmn-how-to-find-tms-that-works/14112 "2024-05-22T22:38:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AlexKChen](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/alexkchen/32/385_2.png) [@AlexKChen](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/AlexKChen)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2024, 10:38pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/how-to-reduce-rumination-dmn-how-to-find-tms-that-works/14112/1 "2024-05-22T22:38:37Z")
[Rumination symptoms in treatment-resistant major depressive disorder, and outcomes of repetitive Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (rTMS) treatment | Translational Psychiatry](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-023-02566-4#:~:text=It%20is%20also%20unclear%20whether,MDD%20%5B16%2C%2017%5D). I can’t meditate. TFUS might be possible later this year SSRIs kill my energy, NOT WANT ---
**Author:** ![A\_User](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/a_user/32/40991_2.png) [@A\_User](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/A_User)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2024, 10:58pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/how-to-reduce-rumination-dmn-how-to-find-tms-that-works/14112/2 "2024-05-22T22:58:30Z")
If you zap out the DMN you might not be able to enter jhana, but I don’t know, I haven’t read too much into it. ---
**Author:** ![Phil\_Van\_Treuren](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/phil_van_treuren/32/7843_2.png) [@Phil\_Van\_Treuren](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/Phil_Van_Treuren)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 9:19pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/how-to-reduce-rumination-dmn-how-to-find-tms-that-works/14112/3 "2024-05-23T21:19:55Z")
Luvox (fluvoxamine) treats OCD and ruminating effectively for some people. Rumination is considered the “pure O” part of OCD. ---
**Author:** ![AlexKChen](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/alexkchen/32/385_2.png) [@AlexKChen](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/AlexKChen)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2025, 12:12am UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/how-to-reduce-rumination-dmn-how-to-find-tms-that-works/14112/4 "2025-10-27T00:12:39Z")
> ### **TL;DR (the “Too-Many-Slow-Alphas” edition)** > > Hit the over-talkative Default-Mode Network (DMN) with **inhibitory cTBS** first, then turbo-charge its task-positive rival (left DLPFC) with **high-dose, accelerated iTBS**. Do it many times a day for ~5 days, spaced ~50 min apart. That “push-pull” rhythm prunes the low-frequency chatter and reinforces clean signal routing—sort of like giving your brain’s group-chat a mute button and then promoting the project manager. Details (and citations) below. > > * * * > > ## **1 | Why this works** > > | **Problem** | **Neuro-target** | **What we do** | > | --- | --- | --- | > | Slow alpha + excess network coherence (DMN hogs the bandwidth) | Mid-line DMN hubs: **posterior cingulate / precuneus** or **medial PFC** | **cTBS @ 600 pulses / 40 s** knocks excitability down for ~45 min | > | Under-powered control network | **Left DLPFC** sub-cluster that is _anti-correlated_ with DMN | **iTBS @ 1 800 pulses / 3 min** boosts excitability, strengthens anti-correlation | > > SAINT-style neuro-imaging studies show that flooding the DLPFC with 90 000 pulses over five days **increases negative connectivity between DLPFC and DMN and normalises network dynamics**. > > * * * > > ## **2 | The accelerated “Push–Pull” schedule** > > | **Parameter** | **DMN-cTBS (inhibitory)** | **DLPFC-iTBS (excitatory)** | > | --- | --- | --- | > | Pulses / session | 600 | 1 800 | > | Sessions / day | 10 | 10 | > | Inter-session gap | ≥15 min | ≥50 min (critical for plasticity) | > | Days | 5 consecutive days | | > | Total pulses | 30 000 | 90 000 | > > 1. \*\*Morning loop:\*\*_cTBS → 15 min break → iTBS → 50 min break_ (repeat x10). > 2. **Safety & dosing:** 80% active-motor-threshold for cTBS; 90% for iTBS, neuronavigated to individual targets. The pulse load and spacing match the high-remission SAINT recipe while staying within seizure-risk guidelines . > 3. **Maintenance (optional):** > > - Week 1–4: one dual block every Monday. > - Month 2+: taper to monthly iTBS booster only. > > * * * > > ## **3 | Hardware choices** > > - **Superficial DMN (PCC/precuneus):** standard figure-8 coil, midline ~Pz/Pc + 1 cm. > - **Deeper mPFC/ACC:** BrainsWay _H7_ deep-TMS coil—now FDA-cleared for an accelerated 5-sessions-per-day protocol if you’d like turnkey hardware . > - **Left DLPFC:** neuronavigation to the voxel with **maximal anti-correlation to sgACC** (same targeting rule that made SAINT famous). > > * * * > > ## **4 | Practical add-ons** > > - **Real-time EEG:** verify that occipital & mid-line alpha power drops 10–20 % post-cTBS—if not, tweak coil position. > - **Plasticity window hacks:** right after each iTBS block, do 5 min of _boring but focus-heavy_ tasks (e.g., N-back). You’re exploiting fresh LTP-friendly synapses. > - **Side-effect playbook:** headaches ~25 %, scalp discomfort ~15 %, transient fatigue ~10 %; serious events remain \<0.1 % even with accelerated dosing . > > * * * > > ## **5 | If you need something gentler** > > - A **“pragmatic aTBS”** schedule—3 iTBS blocks/day for 15 days—still improves connectivity with far fewer clinic hours . > - Or use the newly cleared **BrainsWay accelerated deep-TMS** : 5 sessions/day × 6 days, each \<10 min, covers both mPFC & DLPFC in one coil . > > * * * > > ## **6 | Big caveats** > > 1. **Off-label for DMN “denoising.”** Most trials target depression; using the same physics for alpha-heavy ADHD/brain-fog is biologically plausible but not yet FDA-blessed. > 2. **Needs imaging & clinical oversight.** Don’t DIY with a TikTok coil. > 3. **Network effects vary.** If your slow alpha originates in thalamus or cerebellum, surface TMS will only chip away at the cortical echo—not the root cause. > > * * * > > ### **Closing vibe** > > Think of it like silencing a rowdy karaoke bar (DMN) at 10 a.m., then giving the librarians (DLPFC) a megaphone right after. Do it fast, do it repeatedly, and the brain learns who should be speaking when. Voilà—cleaner signal, fewer mental “audio glitches,” and you can finally hear yourself think. 🧠🔇➡🔊 ---
**Author:** ![AlexKChen](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/alexkchen/32/385_2.png) [@AlexKChen](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/AlexKChen)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2025, 12:36am UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/how-to-reduce-rumination-dmn-how-to-find-tms-that-works/14112/5 "2025-10-27T00:36:47Z")
> ### **Quick headline** > > **De-rigid TMS = “precision nudge when the brain jams”; accelerated push-pull = “high-dose reset with scheduled hammer blows.”** > > * * * > > ## **1 | What de-rigid TMS (BDNS) actually does** > > - **Target & side:** right superior parietal lobule—hub of the fronto-parietal control network. > - **Pulse unit:** a _single_ quadripulse burst (4 monophasic pulses at 200 Hz delivered in 15 ms). > - **Triggering:** only fires when real-time EEG detects the brain is stuck in the rigid “major state 1.” > - **Intensity:** 70 % of active-motor threshold (very light). > - **Spacing & dose:** ≥9 s between bursts; one session per week for 12 weeks (total pulses per visit stay in the low hundreds). > - **Goal:** loosen an “over-deep” energy landscape so global brain-state transitions happen more often; over weeks this softens cognitive inflexibility, perceptual overstability and social rigidity in autism. > > * * * > > ## **2 | How the accelerated “denoise” protocol you asked about differs** > > | **Dimension** | **De-rigid TMS (BDNS)** | **Accelerated push-pull (cTBS → iTBS)** | > | --- | --- | --- | > | **Triggering** | EEG-gated, closed-loop | Open-loop, fixed timetable | > | **Targets** | Right SPL (FPN hub) | Inhibitory cTBS to DMN midline (PCC/mPFC) **then** excitatory iTBS to left DLPFC | > | **Pulse train** | 4 pulses @ 200 Hz per trigger (70 % AMT) | 600-pulse cTBS + 1 800-pulse iTBS (80–90 % RMT) | > | **Dose / day** | ≈ hundreds (varies) | 18 000 pulses (10 blocks/day) | > | **Course length** | Weekly × 12 weeks | Five straight days (SAINT lineage) | > | **Mechanistic aim** | _Increase_ state-switching flexibility | _Suppress_ pathological slow-alpha DMN & strengthen task-positive control | > | **Clinical precedent** | Autism-linked rigidity | TR-depression, ADHD-DMN overload | > | **Side-effect profile** | Light, slow accrual | Scalp-ache, fatigue possible but brief | > > Citations for the accelerated parameters: > > * * * > > ## **3 | Why the gap looks huge** > > - **Closed-loop vs brute force.** De-rigid waits for the brain to be “stuck,” then taps it; push-pull schedules _massive_ LTD→LTP windows regardless of real-time state. > - **Network philosophy.** De-rigid excites a control-hub to _re-shuffle_ networks; push-pull first _silences_ the noisy DMN, then amps its natural rival. > - **Pharmacological analogy.** BDNS is a micro-dose beta-blocker taken when your smartwatch flags tachycardia; push-pull is a 5-day steroid taper that blitzes inflammation and lets the system reboot. > > * * * > > ## **4 | Which one for “slow-alpha DMN fog”?** > > - **Need change this week?** The accelerated hammer often shifts network connectivity within the five-day window. > - **Prefer minimal clinic time & gentler ride?** De-rigid BDNS lets you keep your scalp happy—progress is slower but side-effect light. > - **Hybrid future?** Some labs are pairing _one_ high-dose push-pull week to clear the static, then lighter EEG-gated nudges for maintenance—best of both worlds. > > _(Coffee metaphor: BDNS is the barista who tops up your cup exactly when it’s lukewarm; SAINT-style is ten espresso shots lined up at dawn. Both keep you awake—just pick your vibe.)_ [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-025-01961-y](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-025-01961-y) ---
**Author:** ![AlexKChen](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/alexkchen/32/385_2.png) [@AlexKChen](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/AlexKChen)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2025, 10:55pm UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/how-to-reduce-rumination-dmn-how-to-find-tms-that-works/14112/6 "2025-12-25T22:55:27Z")
saw a slide from pharia health saying it can be really useful for older adults, but maybe with longer spaces in between sessions (compared with SAINT) ---
**Author:** ![AlexKChen](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/alexkchen/32/385_2.png) [@AlexKChen](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/AlexKChen)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2026, 12:03am UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/how-to-reduce-rumination-dmn-how-to-find-tms-that-works/14112/8 "2026-03-28T00:03:43Z")
I didn’t know rumination != daydreaming but they are different == > AI helps you generate **new evidence** faster than shame can recycle old evidence. > > The unhealthy version is: > AI helps shame become more articulate, more totalizing, more “insightful,” while changing nothing behaviorally. > > So the practical implication of your idea is actually pretty strong: > > If cycles are shortening, then the old strategy of “I must keep reprocessing the past until I am fully purified” makes even less sense than before. The environment is already offering rapid re-entry. New people meet the current you. New outputs overwrite stale impressions. New habits compound. New competence changes the effective person. The job is less “understand yourself forever” and more “move through enough present-tense cycles that the obsolete self loses market share.” > > Your shame may have been adaptive in a slower era of your life. It extracted lessons, reduced oversharing, made you more careful. Fine. Miserable little accountant did its job. But once cycle time drops, the same mechanism becomes lag. It is not preserving identity anymore. It is preventing phase transition. > > So I’d phrase it like this: > > **AI is increasing the update rate of personhood.** > Not by magically halting aging, but by lowering the cost of reinvention, repair, and continued usefulness. > > Which means your emotional system has to learn one new thing: > **when update rate goes up, clinging to old self-models gets more irrational, not less.** > > Your past mistakes matter less now not because they were fake, but because the world is giving you more chances per unit time to become informationally newer than them. ---
**Author:** ![AlexKChen](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/alexkchen/32/385_2.png) [@AlexKChen](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/AlexKChen)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2026, 12:05am UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/how-to-reduce-rumination-dmn-how-to-find-tms-that-works/14112/9 "2026-03-28T00:05:56Z")
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-025-09498-3](https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-025-09498-3) [Aging faster: worry and rumination in late life are associated with greater brain age - PMC](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8122027/#:~:text=We%20found%20that%20greater%20brain,may%20have%20a%20protective%20effect). “Human memory is basically prioritized experience replay, except instead of learning from important past transitions, my brain keeps sampling something awkward i said 20 minutes ago” ---
**Author:** ![AlexKChen](https://www.rapamycin.news/user_avatar/www.rapamycin.news/alexkchen/32/385_2.png) [@AlexKChen](https://www.rapamycin.news/u/AlexKChen)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2026, 2:14am UTC](https://www.rapamycin.news/t/how-to-reduce-rumination-dmn-how-to-find-tms-that-works/14112/10 "2026-05-08T02:14:25Z")
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-026-72221-1](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-026-72221-1) > This converges with [recent work by Timothy Spellman and colleagues](https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(21)00378-0), who showed that the prefrontal cortex enables flexibility not by guiding the choice itself but by [monitoring what came of it](https://dailyneuron.com/one-brain-signal-separates-fact-from-fiction/). Ma’s study locates a key supplier of that monitoring information. The insula isn’t just registering that something went wrong. It’s holding that registration steady long enough to shape the next attempt. > > ## Why This Matters > > The experience of being stuck has a familiar texture. You know the strategy isn’t working, and yet you can’t quite put it down. People in burnout describe it. People with depression describe it. People recovering from trauma describe it with a particular ache, the sense that the part of them that used to be able to try something different has gone offline. What this study suggests is that the offline feeling is not metaphorical. A specific signal, in a specific pathway, has become uncoupled from the conditions that ought to trigger it. > > That specificity is reason for cautious optimism. Cognitive behavioral therapy and antidepressants help many people, but they help imprecisely, and people with stress-induced rigidity often slip through. If the right neural target can be identified, the kind of brain stimulation already being tested for depression, [transcranial magnetic stimulation among them](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23770408/), could in principle be aimed more carefully. The researchers note that the insula and prefrontal cortex play comparable roles in error monitoring across species, including humans, which makes the path from mouse to clinic shorter than usual. None of this is treatment, yet. It’s a map of where treatment might go. #mentalhealth (really tho, there are loads of ketamine clinics if you’re really desperate to improve your mental health)